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Jade – You know sometimes, you know pull out, the pull up their sleeves and clean up with you. Be there for you.

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – Moral support, it’s not just about selling home because sometimes emotions are running high and you have to know who you have next to you.

[Music]

Nicky – What’s up Corrnation! Welcome to another episode of coin for thought today I’m here with Jade Majstorovic and she’s my real estate agent and today we’re actually going to talk about her selling my parents houses, their principal home and their investment properties. Before they actually got divorced. Right, so well they haven’t officially got divorced yet but you know before you know the separation agreement got drawn up. So thank you so much for joining us and yeah welcome

Jade – Thank you, thank you for having me as a guest.

Nicky – Yeah so tell me about tell me about what you thought of the process before we even started. I mean you only knew me. We’ve done business before you’ve worked with my clients but at the same time this was this was really really personal. Right because now you were working with my parents and I know how badly you wanted to make me happy and um and I was I warned you that this was going to be tough and challenging but how did you feel about it before you know we even started? Before we even went into it?

Jade – To be honest with you I thought that I was up to this challenge hundred percent and during the process there were lots of things that I didn’t experience before and it was um uh very very personal at the end.

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – Very very challenging process all together um but what went through

Nicky – The big thing was really trust right

Jade – The biggest.

Nicky – Because at the end of the day you know my father is very very hard to please and he’s not that much of a trusting person so um especially because you know in a situation with real estate oftentimes even in my experience couples really fight over which real estate agent to choose. They can’t seem to agree upon one so oftentimes they they get two to help sell their property. One to represent one party and the other to represent the other so they could feel like they have somebody on their side but in this case you know it was it was actually a good thing that you were kind of uh representing them both which is which was awesome but it kind of put you in a really tough position at times because they’re both very very different people. It was at a very emotional time in the divorce like selling all the properties all the stuff that they’ve worked really hard to achieve you know because you know they’re more property people than they are regular standard investment people so um so how is that how is that first conversation like with my father? You know how how were you able to kind of I guess talk to him in a way where you could really showcase who you were and really I guess convince him that you know you were going to be fair to him even though you were closer to me and mom?

Jade – Well to be honest um at first I wasn’t his first choice and he decided to go with me as a realtor just because of your mom and your mom’s suggestion. Um we were talking what I was offering. We were talking um all plans that I’m putting forward for him to showcase their homes in best possible way. I guess I was very calm, I was very collected, I wasn’t about sales sales sale. I was about there to be their mediator and he knew that that he needed somebody to trust. To bring the best for both sides.

Nicky – Right

Jade – And somehow um I earned that trust over the time working with him because I had to be very uh fair and honest with both of them. Every conversation that happened between me and any of them had to be also articulated to the other side

Nicky – Right

Jade – um very straightforward um

Nicky – It had to be clean

Jade – It had to be very clean yeah and it had to be very honest.

Nicky – yeah

Jade – and there were things that we weren’t agreeing with at first and I had lots of explanation to do um as you know he’s very articulate your father

Nicky – yeah he’s very articulate.

Jade – As you know he is very straightforward, he is emotional, he is um I wouldn’t say aggressive but very very

Nicky – Firm

Jade – Firm

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – And his beliefs and his decisions and for me to deal with that and your mother on the other side was none of it. She was very easy going, she was hurt, she was emotional, but she wasn’t strict of how things are done she let me run my own show, while father was very much controlling how to do it but all in all I could say that some of his suggestions also help us in a whole process and I didn’t disregard what he was saying I was trying just to work it that way, that works for everybody, in that we could integrate some of his experience in our deal which helped us as well.

Nicky – The one thing that I really admire about my father and it’s something I guess I I inherited from him was I I’ve always been really decisive and and he’s very decisive

Jade – And analytical too

Nicky – Yeah and better for better for worse right he knows what he wants.

Jade – Yes he knows what he doesn’t want to and he does sometimes he knows and sometimes that’s more important than what he wants

Nicky – Yes

Jade – So we had to start from things he didn’t want

Nicky – Right

Jade – To have and then agree on things he wanted to have and was working okay. It’s with ups and downs for sure

Nicky – Yeah did you find that do you find that easier to work with than somebody who say has no idea with what they want? Like my mom

Jade – Actually even though it was challenging, I I liked working with him. I liked you, know it gave me clear idea what I can or cannot do. With mom I was always guessing.

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – Sometimes very hard to hear her real opinions right.

Nicky – Right

Jade – With him I was clear throughout the whole process yeah there was no hidden issues. There wasn’t nothing that I had to double guess. I was very clear what I’m in in this process with him.

Nicky – What are ways that you feel like you went above and beyond than just a standard realtor because standard realtors I feel like you know it’s a lot cleaner than someone who’s going through a divorce right because they’re really at their worst so a lot of times you have um quiet people that are really loud and raging about something or people that are super emotional and they’re stuck on on a certain thing or people that are normally very outgoing but then they shut down. So you don’t see them at a time when they’re very clear-headed and uh they’re able to think about things logically. So how, what were a couple of the challenges that you faced working with my mom and my dad and working with those two different kinds of personalities? And let’s talk about their personalities first, you know? So…

Jade – Well in the divorcing couples working for divorcing couples is completely different ballgame um even though sometimes the divorce is as amicable as it can be. They might be not on speaking terms and as you know your parents weren’t speaking terms

Nicky – Yes

Jade – There was no connection with them at all. As you know your mother left home yeah and your father stayed behind.

Nicky – Yeah for for over a year.

Jade – A year

Nicky – Right before we started the process yes yeah

Jade – And somehow I think secretly he uh hoped that they’re gonna recall their um relation which didn’t happen and mother was withdrawn from everything, every emotion, every conversation, every way in this whole process. At the same time we have to make sure that house is ready for sale. We have to make sure that there are lots of touch-ups, cleaning, painting, removal of stuff there are years and years that they spend this house together. There is lots of things that they collected together that has to be either split or get rid of.

Nicky – Right

Jade – Right. So um it was challenging and and when people are divorcing they’re hurting and you have to be there for them for things that you’re usually not with regular sale of the house. Like you have to organize for them painters, movers, stagers

Nicky – Yeah they just don’t have the energy or the bandwidth.

Jade – The energy or or even they’re not even willing to, they want to just move out and move with their life move on, with their life but you cannot just do that. You know unless you want to put house for sale as is and experience financial losses with that right.

Nicky – I’ve never seen, I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced this but like my mom broke. Like she completely shattered, she shut down.

Jade – She shut down.

Nicky – She completely shut down, she was like a zombie and um she if someone were to give her a plane ticket to run she would

Jade – She would

Nicky – She would run and she would just she would

Jade – Bolt

Nicky – She would bolt, she would forget this life and she just wanted out but at the same time there were so many things that needed to get done and she didn’t have the energy to function on the daily. Let alone take care of all of these things. For the first time I think I felt sorry for my father. You know because he had to pick up a lot of the slack uh to do a lot of the things that she was just refusing and unable to do and you know in terms of knowledge like you know my mom my mom kind of turned around was like well I never wanted these properties to begin with and now I have to work so hard to sell them right because my father really was the property buff right that’s an investment that he really wanted to get into and so he had a lot of the knowledge and the understanding of you know how to get rid of things but at the same time what was really emotional for him was these are investments that he built together right

Jade – Yes

Nicky – And now they were now they were getting liquidated and I think the biggest biggest, the hardest thing for him and, this is just a third party opinion because I never spoke to him about this, but I think the hardest thing for him was selling their matrimonial

Jade – Matrimonial home

Nicky – Matrimonial home

Jade – Yes

Nicky – Uh they loved their neighborhood they loved their community, they loved where they lived, they put so much effort and energy into that home together and I think that was really really hard there’s that moment that everybody has where the fact that they’re getting divorced just gets slapped in their face and I think that selling that home was that from my father. You know?

Jade – It was

Nicky – Uh that you know my mom’s not coming back and his marriage is over. His old life is over.

Jade – Hardest to admit

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – That was hardest to admit, that was hardest to real to come to realization, it’s over it’s ending, there is no more.

Nicky – There’s no more

Jade – Yeah

Nicky – There’s no more and so in that sense I feel like you know so he was a lot more uh active and doing a lot more things and he was he was upset because of all the things that he had to do and all the things and rightfully so right so I think that you know he had his his friends and his community to a certain extent, to neighbors to to really really help out and um and that was really good for him but he was also working from home right

Jade – I was very much uh surprised how much job he did on his own or with help with friends and family and neighbors when it comes to clear out the house

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – Because she didn’t want to come in the house while he was there. Meanwhile it was covid time and he worked from home and he was in his group he couldn’t go up. So we have to make sure that he is either in the room or he is away when me and your mom would come and clear out some things and um take some stuff that has to be taken out of home um

Nicky – And you have to make these appointments

Jade – All the time and be present and help up

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – You know because um he obviously didn’t want you to be involved. Geoff was working and it was me who had to go and mind you I wanted to help. Don’t get me wrong it’s not that I had to but I also wanted to be there for them because I understood how emotional the whole process is just knowing you I had a little bit of background what was going on in their life and of course over the time I built a trust with both of them and they both spilled the beans to me and I had to make sure that at the same time um it’s not hurting to other side. Whatever is being said and to work how to say in a class with both of them

Nicky – Yeah um like really

Jade – So the process goes on the the least possible in the least possible hurting way.

Nicky – Right

Jade – Right so um I was there most of the time I would help whatever I could personally but I was very pleasantly surprised how much he did on his own.

Nicky – I find that you know in a divorce situation the biggest thing that people people uh sort of hang on to is the stuff.

Jade – It’s stuff

Nicky – It’s the stuff

Jade – It’s stuff

Nicky – and do you agree with that?

Jade – But he was okay yeah he was he was surprisingly okay he kept his stuff and what has to be get rid of he he was let go no problem. Mother wasn’t there at all

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – She when it comes to stuff there are a few things that she wanted to keep and she was out.

Nicky – Yight yeah

Jade – Completely

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – Emotionally um 

Nicky – Physically

Jade – And physically she was out she just when I ran away. That’s how I felt but again again at the end it worked out well. Uh we didn’t have problem to sell investment property that wasn’t that wasn’t big attachment for both of them. For him financially yes because he worked hard to achieve their retirement security.

Nicky – Right

Jade – Right for her was just sell it and let go

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – but the second property was more emotional for him than for her because she wasn’t there she wasn’t involved in daily cleaning, organizing, things like he was right.

Nicky – Right

Jade – So it was a strange process because I was that much involved which I wouldn’t otherwise right there is lots of patience needed you know. Lots of patience needed.

Nicky – How did you now I had to be my mom’s sounding board right so a lot of a lot of times I had to really probe and ask her what do you want and it was hard too because like a lot of times she would say what she wanted but it wasn’t clear, she wasn’t clear and I had to ask her you know, give it some time, are you sure that’s what you want. It was hard to get information out of her um so then there was the third party which was me right trying to like communicating with you and I think like it was weird because she was she felt like nobody was communicating with her but it was like no one was getting information out of her at that time on direction of what to do. So everybody was kind of coming to me what does your mom want and I think it was this weird thing where she was really offended that nobody was coming to her but everybody tried coming to her but she wasn’t able to say what she wanted so so that was that was really funny.

Jade – She wouldn’t even read her emails and respond to them on the time. So the biggest thing that we did and established from the very beginning as the conversation and answer had to happen between in uh 48 hours which wasn’t case before she took days before reading and days before answering email. She didn’t want to talk to him on the phone, she didn’t want a text. She wanted only conversation happened through emails and then she wasn’t answering them on time.

Nicky – Right

Jade – So when we established that that conversation that response had to happen within 48 hours then things started moving on a little bit better.

Nicky – So I think it’s really good as a realtor to be able to kind of figure out some boundaries. Right? Some some rules rules of engagement. Okay? You guys are miserable. You guys are going to get divorced but we have to work together for now to get rid of this property. So what are the things that we’re going to do to make things smooth? And I think that that whatever that is needs to be really ironed out.

Jade – Yes

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – Really clearly ironed out

Nicky – Because you’re dealing

Jade – There’s no moving forward unless this happens

Nicky – Exactly

Jade – Right so they had to understand that

Nicky – Yeah you’re dealing with hundreds and thousands of dollars if not if not millions.

Jade – Absolutely

Nicky – Right so so those rules of engagement really really need to be there clear yeah yeah. What is something that you you love about that that experience that transaction and how did it really you know help you grow career-wise? Do you think?

Jade – You know this whole dealing with divorcing couple it’s experience each each of them is experienced on its own it teach me to be more personal. Teach me to make friends along the way

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – This is really um really important to me. It’s not just having a client for a client over the time you become friends over the time you earn trust of people and this was really really important to me. Even though there were your parents, tomorrow it’s going to be somebody else’s parents or you know friends and for me being attached not just personal not just uh professionally privately as well. Um it really counts yeah. It makes me a better person, it makes me feel better at the end of this process, that I know that I help somebody in their heart is one of the hardest time in life

Nicky – Right

Jade – You know for some people would be just go go sell sell sell. For me teach me patience and teach me that there is more than just money.

Nicky – You have to be patient because a lot of times when you’re going through a divorce a lawyer has to clear something before a realtor can really step in

Jade – Yes

Nicky – And a lot of times I find that you know realtors really don’t understand that. They don’t understand that you know a divorce is a financial and legal process first and um they’re kind of tied in with that and a lot of times they may be showing houses to clients that are much further than where they need to be. Like say for example if they if they have kids and they need to be closer to their kids for for you know those visitation arrangements and why show your client something so much further away or you know not really setting rules of engagement and communication you know uh right off the bat I think that that’s that’s really really needed.

Jade – It is

Nicky – So you know and a lot of times I think that realtors don’t really understand that how how much lawyers really need to be involved if there is a if there are lawyers involved and and that things could take months. So it’s not about you know market timing and this and that like that’s all that’s that’s really nice to have

Jade – Yeah

Nicky – If you can just have it done in the right time but it’s not always you know you don’t always get clearance right off the bat you know.

Jade – And there are also financial advisors needed.

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – Their input to what your client can and cannot do yeah because some people are very attached to their property and they would like to stay and pay out the other side but very often they’re not able and they’re not realizing that they’re not financially able to carry on mortgage on their own.

Nicky – I find that to be the case a lot of times you know when people mainly have children you know 

Jade – So they want to stay because of school

Nicky – Yes because because of the school and the friends and and a lot of times it’s guilt right they they feel like they’re getting a divorce and now their kids are getting dragged through the mud and that they’re going to have to move to a place and take their kids away from their home but you know at the end of the day real estate it’s just it’s an investment right and in a divorce uh investments get split and I find that a lot of times people don’t really consider that when they do decide to stay in a house they don’t consider the amount that they have to buy out. The increased mortgage and then 

Jade – Are they qualifying for that at all?

Nicky – Exactly and then also managing all the house and child expenses whatever you know on their own being able to maintain that. I don’t think that they really consider all of that um at all you know so there’s a lot of um resistance when it comes to oftentimes selling the matrimonial 

Jade – Yes

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – There’s lots of resistance and sometimes it’s on father’s side, sometimes it’s on mother’s side. It depends right but there is lots of resistance because they’re trying to protect their children from all these dealings and very often it’s not possible right. You have to deal with moving, you have to deal with putting kids in different schools and it becomes very emotional you know and then when you’re very emotional then you’re not thinking straight. When you’re not thinking straight, you’re making moves that are in the way of selling and properly um dealing with with financial side properly dealing with selling off your home. Trying to do as much as possible to showcase this home in the best possible way to get the most out of it

Nicky – Right

Jade – Right people sometimes just resist the whole process and that affects them in a negative way 

Nicky – Yeah all right you help my my parents move stuff like you helped my mom with her, with her visits, you made the appointments, you brought your ca,r you shoved a whole bunch of her things into her car, um my dad refused to leave the house. How was that? Right 

Jade – He’s posting stuff on facebook, getting raising stuff

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – Yeah

Nicky – Posting stuff on facebook and facebook marketplace yeah to get rid of things and sell things off that you know to help them to help them and um you know really helping with the staging. Bringing your own paintings and this and that to save the money cushions this that took out some costs.

Jade – To cut costs

Nicky – To cut costs you know um because at the end of the day people are getting divorced don’t want to pay real estate fees. I mean and neither do financial advisors when you’re advising your clients like make sure these real estate fees are down to a minimum right

Jade – Yes

Nicky – Because they get added on to like lawyer fees and other things oh like it’s just uh

Jade – You have to be flexible on that as much as you can you know financially and um some people are some people are not but I try my best

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – That’s all you can do it’s just to try your best to cut out cost for them right and also earn some money for your work

Nicky – Right

Jade – Right

Nicky – What was it like having a third party? You know it’s not always nice having a third party in such a crazy situation but you had me and what was it like having me poke my nose in the situation?

Jade – Actually to be honest with you it was great for me it was big help for me

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – The reason why is because you had to be a voice of your mother for your mother

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – Because she didn’t have one and it helped me in many ways to understand and to move forward because she couldn’t. She was frozen, she was detached, she wanted to run away, she wasn’t ready for this. I don’t think that even now a year or more later she’s still in her head. She completely is still in the place where she’s supposed to be. So for me uh having you as a help and tell me what she thinks how she feels it was tremendous help.

Nicky – I feel like the hardest thing is really going through the tunnel. Really getting through a lot of a lot of that to get on the other side

Jade – Yes

Nicky – she kind of just wanted to be on the other side automatically

Jade – Jumping without anything dealing with anything

Nicky – But these things take time like you can’t you can’t like get rid of a 33 year old marriage in in a poof yeah right you can’t okay there’s so many things to do

Jade – But you know what um really true opinions and hurt I didn’t feel from your mom’s side I felt from your father’s side.

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – He was extremely hurt, he couldn’t believe that’s happening to him.

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – Right there is lots of things that he couldn’t deal with because of cultural upbringing

Nicky – Oh yeah I mean like we we grew up in a traditional Indian Catholic home

Jade – Yes

Nicky – Um so there’s the culture but also the religion

Jade – Religion was big time he couldn’t believe that’s happening to him. He couldn’t believe that he’s gonna be divorced and he couldn’t believe that his marriage is no more and he has to continue life on his own, after all these promises given in church to God. That was huge for him. 

Nicky – Do you remember you were you were telling me how um he felt really really almost offended by putting his religious stuff in the drawers?

Jade – Oh my god

Nicky – For the staging

Jade – Yes

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – Yes but I I didn’t know how to take it out away because you have to the personality

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – So all religious stuff has to be put away right and I think that was very hard for him

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – To understand no incense burning no religious stuff out 

Nicky – Because he has his like statues of like mother Mary and the cross and like the crucifix stuff and you know his incense stuff and you can’t have those those smells and

Jade – Nothing

Nicky – You know like those you you can make can you even like candles you like can?

Jade – No

Nicky – You can’t like no but you know you definitely can’t have those religious stuff. Pictures things like that

Jade – No, no, you shouldn’t

Nicky – No

Jade – You shouldn’t so for him that was all big deal

Nicky – Yeah 

Jade – You know that I tell him hey you have to put that in a drawer

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – Cannot be out, you have to make sure when you leave home none of this shows.

Nicky – Right

Jade – It was challenge he did it yeah he did it but I know with heavy heart he couldn’t understand why this is him but I’m not showcasing you I’m showcasing you home right right so that was the challenge

Nicky – Yeah because somebody else needs to come into this home and picture themselves yes right and you can’t have things in your home that are showcasing the owner because then it creates that barrier uh for the person coming in because then they see that home as not their home but they’re visiting somebody else’s home

Jade – Yes

Nicky – Yeah so and I find too that also affects the price if you if the home is not rightly staged if it’s not cleaned out properly, you know. If it’s not free of clutter and all of that stuff uh you know you might get an offer on your house but you know spending that extra couple of thousand dollars might get you tens of thousands of dollars more, yes.

Jade – And it did we actually got really nice price for that home

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – More than we expected right because of staging because of painting, because of emptying, because of putting it right away. So when people came to see the home they didn’t like it they they were imagining themselves in that home. Um together with this old furniture even though we know it’s not going to be there but it gave them idea how it would look that like for them later on right

Nicky – So what are a couple of takeaways that you feel uh you’d like to share with people going through a divorce and separation? Also maybe for other realtors to really consider.

Jade – When people are going through divorce there are things that they always have to take in consideration before even thinking of putting their property for sale. The most important thing is to find out what they want are they able to carry on the mortgage. Would they like to buy out the other side? That’s biggest thing before even talk to your financial advisor, tax person. How you’re going to be financially impacted with selling or not selling or buying out somebody else?

Nicky – Right

Jade – Try to set the emotion aside. Have clear head, choose a realtor who you can trust, who’s going to be there with you with all steps of the process. You know sometimes you know pull out the pull up their sleeves and clean up with you be there for you

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – Be moral support it’s not just about selling home because sometimes emotions are running high and you have to know who you have next to you

Nicky – Something I loved about you is that you’re not nervous to pull up your sleeves and get really dirty. You know um you know you will go in and if the cleaners don’t come and clean up you’ll go in and clean

Nicky – Not just this I went after them and cleaned what they didn’t touch up there failed to to clean

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – because I know it has to be done.

Nicky – Right

Jade – So hey it’s part of a job even though we’re realtors we don’t think that way we would like somebody to come cleaning services, staging services but hey life is not perfect and and not always happen like this and I’m sure all realtors were going through this but in divorce situation number one for realtors is patience. You have to be patient it takes time, it’s not happening overnight.

Nicky – Right

Jade – You have to deal with people’s emotions not when you’re selling regular home, people are usually together, they decide together and it goes easy. The process is much easier when people are speaking, they’re on same terms, they have same wants and needs.

Nicky – Right

Jade – Apart from people who are divorcing. They don’t want to speak, they don’t want to live in the same room, they don’t want to do nothing for each other, they’re fighting, they’re bitter. This is where the patience comes and the situation as the most important part of dealing

Nicky – And you had some breaking points

Jade – Oh I did I did I I had some breaking points where I was disappointed, where I screamed inside my head. Where I didn’t know what to do but you know what I always would say the morning is smarter than the evening. So I would take time to go down and then address that again maybe from different. You know angle but it worked out

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – It worked out and if I if I turn time back and if if I could decide again and say hey would you do it for them 100 I would no regrets

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – No regrets on my end. For neither one of them even though they’re completely different personalities, completely different dealing, complete complete different persons. I like them both in their own way you know and I like what I did for them and and um I’m very happy and honored to earn their trust.

Nicky – I think at the end you brought a lot of empathy to the table because because a lot of times you weren’t, your meetings would say like my father were like two to three hours long or something like that right. So uh obviously you guys weren’t talking about real estate and he just needed to have somebody to really talk to

Jade – Yes

Nicky – Right um

Jade – Yes explain himself

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – Tell what he thinks

Nicky – I mean it didn’t do any good but he needed that

Jade – He needed that

Nicky – He needed it

Jade – He needed to vent up

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – Yeah on the other hand mother was quiet as she as she could be.

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – She very little spoke about this.

Nicky – I think it’s just because she didn’t understand how she felt and she couldn’t articulate how she was feeling she was she just felt traumatized, by the whole situation and she was done she was miserable. So um she was completely overwhelmed by the situation by things she had to do by everything.

Jade – You know she was lonely in that marriage

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – And she was even more lonely without that marriage and she still is and that will change over the time when everything is finalized, done. Put a dot on it move on. That will change but she is still very lonely in her mind

Nicky – Yeah, I think that like my parents were never right for each other.

Jade – I don’t think there were

Nicky – And she spent a lot of her time really trying to make my father happy

Jade – yes

Nicky – but she didn’t realize who she was

Jade – What she wanted

Nicky – what she wanted you know

Jade – She didn’t know how to achieve what she wanted

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – So it was easier just to keep quiet and do what’s expectable from her

Nicky – Yeah culturally

Jade – Culturally

Nicky – Religiously

Jade – Religiously

Nicky – Yeah and you know when that marriage ended when she left because she just hit this breaking point.

Jade – Yes

Nicky – she was it was like she was a child all over again. Like a baby from scratch because she had to figure out what her goals and her dreams were while also trying to deal with the emotions of uh feeling like a failure you know

Jade – Thirty three years of marriage gone

Nicky – Yeah she lost that time, she lost that time and and in a way like so did my father right my father lost that time. Of things that he could have done in his life.

Jade – Definitely I I think that both of them could do much better if they had different partners 

Nicky – Yeah that’s for certain that’s for sure but but you never things are the way they are

Jade – Yeah

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – Cannot be changed then like I said for me was also a big challenge dealing with that um culture like cultural things because I didn’t know what’s

Nicky – Appropriate

Jade – Appropriate what’s not should I say something should I not I understand that lots of them are arranged marriages. I didn’t have something like this in my life to understand how much important importance of family opinions are there

Nicky – Right

Jade – Very very important what what people are gonna think about, that what community is gonna think about them but how family is gonna react you know those things are important in indian traditional Indian family

Nicky – I think that we are the first ones if I’m not mistaken where the my parents are the first ones to be divorced in our family and that was that’s probably like a huge that was a huge blow especially to my father because he very very much cares about the way he’s perceived and the way that people look at him. His reputation, you know that that stuff matters to him it doesn’t so much matter to my mom. She for her she doesn’t want people to be upset with her disappointed with her but because she’s very much of an introvert and because you know her family isn’t really here and all of her friends were really associated with my father, like she didn’t have friendships of her own, so her I don’t think that in general she really cared about reputation or or anything like that you know. That wasn’t really a factor.

Jade – But he did

Nicky – He did

Jade – Big time, big time because I think after all this and he he felt like a failure.

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – You know

Nicky – Well it in a way it was it was closing a door to that that chapter you know and I when a when a divorce occurs I I don’t I don’t ever consider it a failed marriage. I don’t like to use those words. I think that people just come to that, I believe that everybody in your life is there for a purpose and for a time period and a lot of times you impose a certain time period onto a relationship that isn’t meant to be lasting for that long uh I think my dad made a wonderful boyfriend you know but not a very good husband. I think that he was well traveled, he was a great bachelor, you know my mom was a lot more naive. She didn’t know who she was, she should have dated around a lot more and even though they got married in their mid-20s so it wasn’t young um I think my dad was 31 and she was in her mid-20s. Like uh it wasn’t young but at the same time she still wasn’t ready so age had had nothing to do with stage uh if that made sense. So you know she if she met him and traveled the world with him and spent time actual time with him, I don’t think that um I think she would have benefited from a relationship that they had but then when when they got married I think my dad went into that obligation mode where he needed to do certain things in a way that he felt was expected of him right. So he needed to get married, he needed to have children, he needed to support his family and for a long time in that marriage, he was very negative, he was very 

Jade – Or trapped

Nicky – Yeah trapped trapped and it’s

Jade – It’s obligations

Nicky – Yeah with with these obligations

Jade – Expectations

Nicky – If there’s one thing that I wish for him now, I just wish for him to live this life that’s free and in a weird way my mom was trapped too because my mom never wanted to be in that marriage. She says that even now and but she felt like she couldn’t get out of it. So she felt she felt really trapped and she felt like she had to make it work because you know otherwise you know it’s like for better or for worse right. In sickness and in health

Jade – She would be still trapped in it

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – If it wasn’t that she was put in a situation to choose she would be still trapped but she had to make a move to choose one side or another because she was put all the way to the wall either me or daughter.

Nicky – Well I think like you know my my dad and I have had a really really hard time you know ever since I was growing up. I don’t really remember a good time uh with me and my dad and I think that you know later in life I really had to make a decision. Do I stay in this toxic relationship or do I put my family first? Uh do I expose my children to somebody being so toxic to me? So I made that decision and I was very very happy with that decision that I made and that separation for the first time um made me sad but at the same time I was happy for the first time in my life and not even a year later okay my dad put my mom in that position where he was upset that she was coming to see us right. That he didn’t have contact that he was excluded that um you know so he he he told her you know that she wasn’t allowed to go see her family anymore which is me and the kids and my husband and you know that’s what 

Jade – It was breaking point

Nicky – That was the breaking point

Jade – That was the breaking point

Nicky – That was the breaking point because at that point he she was trying to really pacify the whole situation. She was already in this marriage that she didn’t want to be in but at that moment she had to choose between a marriage that made her unhappy and her child that she loved. Okay

Jade – Definitely

Nicky – She had to choose between love and obligatio

Jade – Yeah and if she wasn’t she would be still in that marriage

Nicky – Yeah if he had not

Jade – Put her in that position

Nicky – Put her in that position

Jade – Yes

Nicky – My mom would still be very unhappily married

Jade – Yes. That’s the truth

Nicky – Yeah

Jade – Yeah

Nicky – Well thank you so much for coming on the show and having a chat with me about your experience. I think that you’ve done some incredible work with so many of my clients and this was really personal for me because you worked really really well with my parents.

Jade – Thank you thank you for having me

Nicky – Thank you, thanks everyone for watching this video. I hope you enjoyed this episode please don’t forget to like subscribe and hit that notification bell for more videos to come. If you’d like to work with jay check out the description below to get all of her contact information and as usual I will see you in our next video soon. Bye!